: TOM: David this is a great effort
:

: - I might add a few points and lend some of my own
: interpretation:

: DAVID’s INITIAL POSTING: Tom Caldwell of Australia, John
: Caldwell of California, and David Caldwell of
: Manitoba, have kindly posted here the names of
: numerous Caldwells residing in Scotland and England,
: reaching as far back as records seemingly are
: preserved, to the 12th century A.D. John
: and Tom Caldwell each cited a charter or other document
: of Paisley Abbey in the late 12th century that
: mentions a Caldwell (if as a witness, he would likely
: be a landowner).
: TOM’S COMMENT: This mention is of a follower who may have
: been a knight or a religious person. In any case he is
: associated with Paisley Abbey.
: DAVID’S FOLLOWUP: Please tell us more. If I were to go to
: a library in Scotland to see the document or look for
: any secondary reference to Caldwell’s name in that
: document, what would be the citation or name of the
: document?

TOM: The late Mrs Lesley Gordon, to whom I am indebted, died many years ago but she did let me have a copy of the genealogical charts that she had made up from her searches through old wills. I quote: "The Caldwell of Norse extraction were settled in England from Saxon times but it was early in the 12th century when they got grants of the Beith lands and the family became "Caldwells of that Ilk". There are various spellings of the name and suggestions as to their early history. The names on the chart underwritten have been gleaned from various sources and the placings are to a certain extent conjecture. The first mention appears in the Maitland Club papers (1882) no christian name is given just the fact that there is an entry 'Monestum de Passelat 1292 Caldwell'. There are probably other monastry entries Paisley & Kilwinning but this has not been researched. The first definite name to emerge is : a knight who appears in a list who came to Scotland in the train of de Morville c1127, possibly the knight who got the Beith lands."

"William Caldwell of that Ilk - prebend of Glasgow - 1342 Entry of fee (Excheq Rolls) - Chancellor of Scotland 1350-52 - most of the estate went to the female line "Easter Caldwell" & the tower"

: The Paisley Abbey might have employed “servants” to
: manage their vast landholdings, and I am curious
: whether this Caldwell might have been one such
: “servant.” Perhaps you have read something that would
: bear on that issue. In Alison’s Weir book on Mary
: Queen of Scots she makes mention of a Caldwell in the
: late 16th century asking Mary Queen of Ascots to
: confess to murder, Weir states that Caldwell was a
: “servant” for the Earl of Lennox, father of Lord
: Darnley, who had been murdered. So servant = property
: manager.

: I imagine that when the reformation came, the Catholic
: Church would have salvaged some its records related to
: its property and income, and possibly the Vatican has
: the 12th century documents that refer to any Caldwell
: as a “servant” or property manager for Paisley Abbey.
: Did property manager = enforcer?

The Scottish Church was often estranged from the Vatican at about this time and Robert the Bruce was actually excommunicated (but later forgiven).

: DAVID’s INITIAL POSTING
: Tom and John mentioned that surnames were first mandated
: by order of Scottish King Malcolm Canmore in the late
: 11th century. Each landowner was ordered to assume a
: surname based on the place-name of the property he or she
: owned. Thus, it is plausible to infer that in the late
: 11th century, the owner in fee of the Estate at
: Caldwell, East Renfrewshire became known as Lord
: Caldwell, if part of the nobility, or Laird Caldwell,
: if of lesser status.
: TOM’S COMMENT: I don't know how "mandated" this
: was - it just became common to refer to persons by the
: place where they originated. I think Caldwell is too
: small a place to have been the mother-place of so many
: Caldwells. Much larger places have fewer bearers of
: the placename as surname.
: DAVID’S CHALLENGE: Tom has raised an interesting point.
: Why are there thousands and Caldwells, yet virtually
: no Glasgow or Edinburgh surnames? What makes a place
: name catch on as a surname? I cannot figure it out.

: I question Tom’s reasoning that “Caldwell” is too small a
: place to have been the mother place of so many
: Caldwells. DAVID'S REPLY: Måny Caldwells are buried or
: entombed at the Neilston Kirk cemetery and Parish
: Church. Adjacent to Neilston village is that of
: Barrhead, with 45 Caldwells residing in Barrhead as of
: 1851, according to the census then taken. I challenge
: Tom to identify a single village in Ayrshire, or
: elsewhere in Renfrewshire, with anywhere close to that
: number of Caldwells, in 1851. The local inhabitants
: seem attached to the name Caldwell. Why else would
: they spin off and erect the Caldwell Parish in 1890
: and call the Presbyterian Church in Uplawmoor the
: Caldwell Parish Church of Scotland? No other village
: in Ayrshire or Renfrewshire has a Caldwell Parish
: Church, a Caldwell Law (mountain), and a Caldwell Golf
: course.

I think you will find the vast bulk of the Caldwell's at that time were in the valley running Kilbirnie-Dalry-Beith-Lochwinnoch-Kilbarchan-Paisley. The next most common area would be the Irvine-Ayr-Kilmarnock triangle. Note that history says that the original lands granted to Caldwell were the Beith lands.

Andro Crawfurd wrote the "Cairn of Lochwinnoch" as a sort of social-history-tale about Lochwinnoch and Caldwell's figure in it. there is no doubt that the main Caldwell family lines are centered in the Lochwinnoch area.

: DAVID’s INITIAL POSTING
: In a book by George Crawfurd, History of the Shire of
: Renfrew (1710), he concluded that a Caldwell clan
: resided in Renfrewshire long before the ascension of
: Robert I (Robert Bruce) as King of Scotland and his
: death in 1329.
: Crawfurd drew his conclusion from records of a marriage
: in 1332 or 1333 (I forget the exact year) of the
: Caldwell heiress “of that ilk” to Godfrey Mure, by
: which ownership of a large Caldwell Estate located at
: TOM’s COMMENT:I believe "of that ilk" means
: "of the place of the same name". Small
: gentry but not a clan.
: DAVID’S REPLY: I checked Merriam Webster dictionary
: online and it states that the primary meaning of “ilk”
: is “resembling in every relevant respect,” and is
: particularly used in conjunction with Scottish landed
: families.
: DAVID’s INITIAL POSTING: The Roman soldiers included
: English-speaking mercenaries
: from Anglia, Engleterra, England.

: TOM’S COMMENT: I don't think that any of the Roman
: mercenaries spoke English - was a bit before it was
: "invented".
: DAVID’S REPLY. You’re right.

: DAVID’s ORIGINAL POSTING: During the 9th century,
: Norsemen raided Strathgryffe
: (Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire) as far as Paisley. The
: Old Norse word for artesian spring is “kald.” This
: would have made it easier for those speaking Old Norse
: to accept the place name Caldwell.

: TOM’S COMMENT: I don't think the Norse would have stayed
: long enough to rename anything.
: DAVID”S REPLY: The people in power select the name.

The Norse were in the Islands and Kintyre, possibly Galloway and definately the Isle of Man. I don't think they ever over-ran Strathclyde although they would have made damaging raids there from time to time. The Battle of Largs marked the begining of the end of Norse expansionism. Note well that even though the Norse fleet raided the coast and penetrated to Loch Lomand they were driven off with great slaughter and loss never to return. This was the period pre-the-earliest known mention of Caldwell's. From then on the King of the Scots steadily asserted his influence over the Norse descendents in the islands.

: Anglo-Normans spoke both French and increasingly English.

: DAVID’S ORIGINAL POSTING: ...

: TOM’S COMMENT: Via Normandy? a North-man family settled
: for some generations in Northern France? This le Croc
: story is very interesting as I have always thought
: that before "Caldwell" there may have been
: some earlier pre-surname family - was this the le
: Croc's who adopted the surname "Caldwell"?
: le Croc certainly has not survived.?

: DAVID’S REPLY. I cannot answer Tom’s question. I can see
: some lessons to be learned by studying the history of
: the Bruce (Brus) family. Six generations of Robert
: Bruces up to King Robert I (Robert Bruce VI) His
: father married a Celt, daughter okf the earl of
: Carrick.

: DAVID’s ORIGINAL POSTING: TOM’S COMMENT: ah-ha - possibly
: cementing the Caldwell's closer to the Stewarts. If
: the Caldwell's were Stewart vassals already and not of
: the le Croc family then this would be meaningless.
: DAVID’S REPLY: The focus here is on genealogy that
: overlooks the common ties to the Abbeys. I think we
: have to study more about the relationship between
: Paisley Abbey, Glasgow Diocese, and the landed
: families of Renfrewshire.

My French is very rusty but I looked up my French-English Dictionary and found that "croc" means "hook" or "fang" and I suppose we get "crochet" from this root word. If this is the case it seems to reinforce the fact that "le Croc" looks like a form of nickname. Was Mr le Croc and amputee who had an artificial hook on one limb? Or perhaps he was one who wastruly feared - a monster - and known colloquially as "the Fang". I did not know of a le Croc in the Levern Valley area but "Henry Croc" a vassal of the Stewarts was granted the lands of "Crosbie" (reference "Ayrshire" by John Strawhorn p23) which WERE NAMED AFTER HIM. This flies in the face of later tradition where families took their name from the location where they lived. Likewise at that time Stephen Loccart->Stevenston Simon Loccart->Symington and Ricard Loccart->Riccarton. Seems like a lot of grants to "Loccart's" who may have been the progenitors of the Lockhart family however it is interesting that the valley in which Lochwinnoch is situated is the valley of the River Cart and the area of the original grant of lands to the Stewart family. Perhaps the reference to Loccart was just a reference to the place of origin of these retainers of the Steward. It was early days for surnames and many of these grants were given to those with first names only, "son of", or referred by a nickname. To add to the evidence (per Mr Gordon) "Patrick or Peter Caldwell (wife Isobel) - Reign of K Robt III (1390-1406) - 'Petrus (Patricus)Caldwell' carta Petri Caldwell de tenus de Colgrave - 1412/carta from Sir Adam Fullerton of Crosbie in his favour of lands of Scottishaw (now called Gaylis) dated Irvine 1391".
This is important in the William Caldwell, Chancellor and Caldwell, Renfrew argument for here is evidence of a significant grant to a Caldwell of land on the South Bank of the Irvine River in Ayrshire. Miles from Caldwell, Renfrew and not that long after the transfer of William's land at Caldwell to a Mure. In my mind there is no doubt that Caldwell's were present and well connected in mid-Ayrshire from a very early date. Scottishaw possibly means the wood of the Scots which in tuen might mean "King's Wood" as the King was "the Scot" It was renamed "Gaylis" which is possibly the source of the legend of the Gay-Lys or beautiful lily and supposedly awarded to a Caldwell for success in a tournament. This "tournament" might have been Otterburn. Gaylis is obviously modern Gailes on the coast below Irvine and right next to the then Royal Castle at Dundonald. Caldwell's are still thick on the ground on the south bank of the Irvine in Kyle Stewart. Just ask David of Manitoba for confirmation.

: DAVID’S POSTING: TOM’S REPLY: The "Battle of Rullion
: Green" near Edinburgh was a mere skirmish but it
: shocked the ruling party which took stern action
: against all who had supported this little rising. The
: Laird Mure of Caldwell and Caldwell of that Ilk who
: had joined a band of horsemen in support of the rising
: at Chitterflat but not actively taken part were
: forfeited along with many others. Both Caldwell and
: Mure fled into exile. Mure eventually got his lands
: back but Caldwell did not. It think that Caldwell of
: that Ilk ended up in New Jersey. Good fodder for you
: US researchers!
: DAVID’S INQUIRY: Please Tell us more: “Both Caldwells and
: Mure fled into exile.” Can you provide aan author’’s
: name and book’s title?

The uprising of 1666 was also known as the Pentland Hills Rising and the final little battle at Rullion Green in the Pentland Hills outside Edinburgh. It is in most history books. It was put down savagely and was part of the general covenanting disorders. These date back to when the Scots army was defeated by Cromwell at Dunbar. The covenanting disorders are far too complex to set out here. However: after Dunbar Cromwell advanced on Edinburgh and even circulated through Glasgow. The reamining Scots still in arms against him were the Scots of the Western Alliance in the South West and the "official" army associated with the future Charles II who had moved to the north. The Western Alliance was sympathetic to Cromwell's religion but were motivated partiotically to defend Scotland. Charles on the other hand needed the help of the Western Alliance army to properly defend the country and to have any hope whatsoever of removing Cromwell. He did not stust the SW Scots and they did not trust him. Cromwell had driven a wedge between the two armies and did not wish to proceed against the northern army fearing he would be cut off by the army of the Western Alliance. In return for their support they sought that Charles promise supremecy for the Presbyterian religion in what was humiliating terms for Charles. Charles never forgave them for this and in later years when he was King he exacted his revenge through the Covenaninting times which only ceased on the Revolution of William & Mary.

There are many books on the complex times of the covenanting troubles but it is enough to say that extremists of all religions can cause a great deal of distress in the name of their "blessed" religion. The initial persecution of the Presbyterians in the south west only hardened their resolve and a lot of this hardened resolve crossed the Irish Sea to Northern Ireland and further troubles.

These people eventually became the hardened and perhaps I might say "ruthless" Scots-Irish frontiersmen in North America.