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CaldwellGenealogy.com Discussion Forum

Re: Lesley Gordon's research
By:John
Date: 10:36 1/21/02
In Response To: Re: Lesley Gordon's research (Tom Caldwell)

: I agree that there were principal lines of Caldwell's
: other than the one that terminated with the heiress
: who married Gilchrist Mure.
: My research points to the fact that the heiress was the
: descendent of the Caldwell-Chancellor and that
: "was the principal line" The senior family

It's reasonable that the heiress was a decendant, and likely the heir of the Chancellor's line.

: of Caldwell's from the Lochwinnoch area then became
: the Caldwell's of Little Caldwell. Caldwell of that
: Ilk. It is reasonable to presume that this family was
: the family associated with the commonly known crest.

Okay, but crests and arms weren't passed down to female members of a family. The armorial bearings and the right to bear them would have stopped with the heiress' father.

Other Caldwells, such as Sir James, would have received, or been awarded their amorial bearings.

: The head of theis family was involved in the
: "Chitterflat Incident" - an offshoot of the
: general Pentland Hills uprising of 1666. He and many
: other lairds were forfeit and attainted. He and the
: then head of the Mure family who was also at
: Chitterflat fled overseas, I believe that the Caldwell
: went to the Americas and the Mure to Holland. Later
: the Mure family were restored to their estates largely
: due to the efforts of the then Mrs Mure and her
: daughters. The Caldwell never returned.

I've often wondered, as there are Caldwell settlers who came to America in the mid-1600s. I've often wondered if some of those may have been captured by Cromwell and shipped off to America.

: There were "hundreds" of Caldwell families -
: even in antiquity. The chances of any current
: Caldwell's being descended from the main lines is very
: remote.
:
: I think that you will find that "William of
: Stratton" was no lord, but possibly a landholder.
: I also think you will find that it is not
: "Stratton" but "Straiton" which is
: a village in Ayrshire and merely indicated his place
: of birth.

I've seen it both ways. Thanks for the correction. ;)

: He was the progenator of the Irish family of note. I
: think that this family descended originally from the
: Ayrshire branch of the family and possibly only very
: vaguely connected to the Renfrew family that everyone

This comes from R.M. Sibbet published in the Belfast Times, 1865.

: seems to be trying to link themselves to.
: The Irish branch were originally traders and went into
: bat stenuously to grab Irish Catholic land when it was
: being handed out after the "Revolution".

Actually, it appears that these Ulster-Scots would have come to Ireland prior to 1630, and appear to have come in the early Plantations. William of Straiton was born in Ayrshire, as was his son, John. Both died in Ireland.

: They were sympathetic to William of Orange and took
: part in the defence of Enniskillen.

This would have been a few years later. I agree that as Presbyterians, they were likely Orangemen, but they'd have been a few generations born in Ireland by that time.

: That they became wealthy and important had more to do
: with industry and opportunism in Ireland rather than
: any aristocratic forebears or formner wealth in
: Scotland. (I have read the book).

Oh, I totally agree. I believe that they may have even been Border Reivers.

: When they finally matriculated their own coat of arms
: there were allusions to the original Scottish Coat of
: Arms which might indicate that they at least thought
: they were descended from the original line.

Again, not all of a family or surname are entitled to armorial bearings. I realize that in the context of today, and especially in America, many people believe that they are somehow entitled or may display some Coat of Arms. That comes mostly from heraldy companies who profit from selling them. Techincally speaking, there are no "family" coats of arms. In the time that we are discussing, it would have been "illegal" for anyone other than those awarded, or the rightful male heir, to ever display or claim armorial bearings, or a Coat of Arms.

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Messages In This Thread

Lesley Gordon's research
Tom Caldwell -- 11:02 1/17/02
Re: Lesley Gordon's research
John -- 12:38 1/17/02
Re: Lesley Gordon's research
Tom Caldwell -- 22:36 1/20/02
Re: Lesley Gordon's research
John -- 10:36 1/21/02
 

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